Saturday, September 13, 2008

Daily Digest September 13, 2008


The DAILY DIGEST: INFORMATION and OPINION from ST. JOHN'S to VICTORIA.
ARCHIVED at http://cdndailydigest.blogspot.com/

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THE AFGHANISTAN IMBROGLIO

There are two responses to Ron's post of yesterday.

Watch the se three conversations to have an up to date view.


Al-Qaeda blames Iran, US targets inside Pakistan
Gareth Porter: US attacks tribal areas, al-Qaeda celebrates 9/11 Pt 1 

The war on terror targets Pakistan Pt 2
Gareth Porter: Bush gives Special Forces the power to go deep inside Pakistan  September 12, 2008

The war on terror targets Pakistan
Gareth Porter: Bush and US intelligence not speaking the same language Pt3  September 13, 2008

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From: "Michael Watkins"

> From: Ron Thornton
> Prior to the fall of 2001, the Taliban ruled Afghanistan. Let
> us just say that life was severely restricted and sports fans,
> entertainers, and women did not do well under their control.
> This has changed under the present regime.

1. Lets be clear - the Taliban are not foreign fighters; they are
a group of nationalists from the Pushtun tribe, a tribe which
makes up almost one half of all Afghans. Thanks to the decisions
of foreign powers, a great many Pushtun live on either side of
the Afghan / Pakistan border... family divided by a line they do
not respect as they've lived there many generations longer than
the invisible line.

2. The "Taliban" were originally nationalists bent on taking back
their country from the remnants left after the Soviets departed.
Afghanistan at the time was essentially in anarchy, with ruling
communists left in power as their Red masters left. Women were in
far worse situations under these dogs than under the Taliban.

3. The Taliban took over, imposed their brand of Islamic law,
shut down the opium trade, stopped the institutional rape of
women. Yes, their version of society doesn't resemble what you or
I might like to see.

But neither does what most Afghan women live under today. The
plight of women in the country is not the panacea that we might
like to pretend from our comfy homes. Burkas have not
disappeared; the old ways die hard. In many areas of the country
abuse of women is actually up over when the Taliban were in
control, as hard as that is to swallow. We must be careful what
we wish for... the transitions can be very uncomfortable indeed.

> In all probability, those gains would be reversed if the forces
> supporting that government withdraws and the government falls.

Some things would revert. The Taliban would most certainly seek
to reclaim control over the country.

But some of them already are in the official government - former
warlords and Talib are in Karzai's government and courts.
Remember, these are the people of the region. Virtually one in
two are from their tribe. Not all share the same governance
objective but many share great gobs of cultural and religious
doctorine.

> Should this government fall, what would be the consequences to
> them and to us?

1. To them? They'd get their country back, the foreign occupiers
would be gone. The people of Afghanistan would be left to work
things out on their own.

2. To us? The most immediate impacts:

a) opium trade would dry up again, removing a large stream of
revenue from militants. The Taliban would have their own
self-interest in seeing this happen as it would remove renegade
war lords from the picture in challenging them.

b) our military spending would fall, our casualties drop to
non-war norms.

>If the void is _*not filled*_ by those who hate our customs and
>norms (including those freedoms we hold dear),

The Afghans and Taliban ar one in the same from a cultural and
religious perspective. Sure.. no doubt there are many who want to
see more western-style freedom. I'd like to see less of Stephen
Harper myself. People will do whatever they can within the bounds
of their system to effect change.

It is not our role to impose our way of life on others. For one,
it doesn't work. The indigenous people of the area have to
largely do that on their own.

> who have no problems with fostering and supporting within their
> own borders those who would again make attacks on our shores,

Fact: The Taliban were not behind 9/11. That Bin Laden was is an
issue; certainly the Taliban ought to have turned him over. They
had made certain overtures to do so, under conditions and to an
international court. Bush didn't want that; would get in his way
to ship troops there and to Iraq if bin Laden was sitting in the
Hauge.

Yes, the Taliban allowed bin Laden safe harbour, and while that
seems wrong to us, it was something of a rational decision from
their perspective as a political force in their country. Bin
Laden had something of a cult hero status due to his efforts
during the Soviet invasion (and other bin Laden activities no
doubt); shipping him off to the Americans would have caused the
Taliban serious political problems and potentially lost them
control of the country.

They miscalculated, probably assuming that Bush's main goal was
the capture and trial of bin Laden which in their eyes meant
pushing for an international court destination for bin Laden
would eventually work. Like Saddam Hussein, they blew it, because
they could not fathom how much Bush wanted to push for a large
regional conflict.

The Taliban are not equal to al Qaeda... and al Qaeda is a
relatively small handful of people, nothing like the never ending
foe which Bush et al propagandize. Bin Laden himself has not
published an original new video in over four years; he is likely
dead or severly disfigured or otherwise handicapped.

> who won't enforce a way of life most of us would find totally
> repugnant,

The U.S. had no problem dealing with the "repugnant" Taliban
leadership. The Taliban were in negotations with both Clinton and Bush
administrations to build oil pipelines; negotiations stopped failed in
2001 prior to 9/11. The U.S. had paid millions of dollars to the
Taliban over many years to a) fund their fight against communist
remnants and b) grease the wheels for pipeline deals... anything
to keep Iran out of the regional energy sphere of influence.

> then let us bring these
> Canadian boys and girls home today.

Great idea. We are fighting a war which can not possibly be won.
Imagine fighting a war where 1/2 of the country is a potential
combatant on one side (and other tribes have their own issues
with the foreign occupiers too). They have the advantage of
numbers of people and converts to their cause - every new family
we devastate with "collateral damage" becomes a potential new
source of supply of fighters... for generations.

The only way through to a "victory" will be through political
means.

Eventually the Taliban will sense the tide is turning their way
and they'll do things like deliver aid to local peoples to ensure
they are on their side, not "ours". In other areas of the world
the occupying force (that would be us) would be faced with a
choice: attack those accepting aid from the Taliban to serve as a
deterrent. Will we do that? I should hope not.

No, it seems very likely that the Taliban will set up benevolent
organizations and work on the same strategy we are - winning
hearts and minds - rather than using fear and terror and
reprisal. They merely need to detect the tipping point. It
sometimes seems from reports that in some areas they are reaching
that point.

Remember, Peter "I am not the merger candidate" MacKay says we
don't negotiate with terrorists. With people like MacKay in
charge (?) I've no doubt we'll go far too far without recognizing
the game has been changed under our feet.

Despise them all we want, the Taliban can't rightly be called
terrorists. Militant nationalists yes, and yes they use terrorist
techniques, but to dismiss them as mere terrorists is to
critically overlook their actual claim to the area.

> If the void is to be filled by those who do very
> much want to do us harm, then please explain your thoughts on what should
> be our exit strategy and what we might expect to be the consequences of
> our retreat.

The consequences will largely be political at home, as the
Canadian people wake up to the realization that we should have
exited when it was clear the police action we first were involved
in - locating and capturing bin Laden - was never going to be
completed.

Thus we've spent billions, years of distraction, and real lives -
not just our almost 100 but the thousands of Afghans killed at
our hands and those of our "allies" --- for no, real, lasting,
gain.

The Afghan's will carry on. Pakistan will need to do something
about its border relations - they've been instigators for years
in problems at the border, because they too have lots of Pushtun
in their population too, in that area. These are issues a foreign
invasion force can not hope to deal with.

Perhaps a peacekeeping and negotiating force might.

Propaganda and our own inability to walk a mile in the shoes of
others has conspired to keep most of us woefully underinformed of
the realities in Afghanistan. We can't thrust our own way of life
onto all peoples of the world and hope to actually understand how
things work elsewhere, and how best to move forward. Oftentimes
we'll have to let the locals work it out on their own.

Afghanistan is not and never has been a strategic threat to us or
the United States. A very small group of people in a couple of
camps in the country were a threat. They appear to be gone. Our
beef truly is not with Afghanistan.

The very best thing we could do there is push hard for a
political solution, allow all sides to come out from behind their
bunkers and sort out how to run the country *their* way, while
also guaranteeing that we'll find some way of doing trade with
them.

And trade is a real problem. We can't leave these troubled areas
of the world without a legitimate way of earning an income, yet
through our trade arrangements we do exactly that and then
complain when in the lawlessness of their land they turn to
profitable opium.

Maybe it means ticking off all the potato farmers in Canada and
the U.S... and buying Afghan potatoes and other produce at very
fair rates so they can rebuild their nation on their own terms.

We could pay off our own farmers to produce something else for
far less than we spend on the military.

Actually the very best thing we could do is stop accepting the
simplistic political narrative being pushed out at us. Look at
Sara Palin in the U.S. - she clearly knows very little about
foreign affairs and is being briefed in a hurry using nothing but
Republican talking points.

I'm sure we've all had the experience where we've gone too far
out on a ledge, spouting some doctrine, and feeling uncomfortable
because we don't know the actual facts on the ground. I find it
remarkable in this day and age that with all our media prowess we
can have a public which is so ill-informed on so many subjects of
great importance to us and the world.

We don't really deserve the democracy we have, for we turn the
keys over to politicians that willingly co-opt the truth simply because
they know they can get away with it.

We, the pubilc, need to step up to the plate and take this stuff
much more seriously or we'll end up worse off than the Pushtun
under the Taliban. We might have fancy cars and such but we won't
have freedom or real democracy.

===================================
From: "Jacob Rempel"
Subject: lte
 
(Joe--- I know you will be writing something, but this is my take)
__________________________________
SUBMISSION as a letter to the editor:
 
Dear Editor, Daily Digest ---
Ron Thornton writes his letter to the DAILY DIGEST editor to explain his own support for Canadian military efforts in Afghanistan. He invites a reply from the editor. I don't want to pre-empt the editor's reply, but I do want to reply to Ron's letter to by interrupting his prose at a few places --- 
 
Ron Thornton wrote
Hi Joe:
Less than 100 Canadian soldiers have died in Afghanistan over the past six years. On D-Day, 340 Canadian soldiers died on that single 1944 day. On September 11, 2001, 24 Canadians were killed in the terror attacks in the United States. I believe these are factual figures.
 
My Reaction::
Yes, we are losing relatively few soldiers compared to the terrible wars against Germany, although the Afghanistan people has suffered as much as did the German people. For me this is not a relevant comparison and the reference to 9/11 is not relevant either. What triggered the war? Relevant information is that the Afghan fighters – neither Taliban and the Northern warlords  were ever involved in the 9/11 attacks, though apparently some of them gave some sanctuary to their uninvited Al Qaeda independent terrorists. All of Afghan is now suffering because the US is chasing non-Afghan terrorists.
 
The Taliban and bin Laden were both helped into their power bases by Americans  who want access the pipeline routes through the territory. of Afghanistan. The protection of Afghan women's rights and girls' education were not part of those negotiations This friendly relationship ended when negotiations broke down in Houston Texas meetings between Taliban authorities with the Unical oil company and the US government just a few months before the 9/11 events in New York. Similar negotiations are now in progress with the present Afghan government.
 
Canadian soldiers are now trying to make Kandahar province safe for American pipelines. Canadians in their efforts to help Afghans are also helping the US regime and corporations in their endless wars for resources. ( In Canada it's done with trade agreements like the FTA and NAFTA.. Not good, but not as bad as war.))
 
I can never understand any USA need to possess and own all the oil extraction and transport infrastructure in the countries where the oil is. I suggest that each country can develop the necessary infrastructure and make the oil available for the US businessmen to buy the oil on the international open market  at prevailing market prices, much cheaper than the cost of endless wars.  ---JR

Ron continues:
Prior to the fall of 2001, the Taliban ruled Afghanistan. Let us just say that life was severely restricted and sports fans, entertainers, and women did not do well under their control. This has changed under the present regime. In all probability, those gains would be reversed if the forces supporting that government withdraws and the government falls. 
It is one consideration.
 
My reply:
Creative fair trade and diplomatic peaceful engagement, with the help of UN agencies like UNESCO, and a Marshall plan type of foreign aid could democratize Afghan society much faster than what we try to do with commercial infrastructure destruction and social and moral disruption of war, including the displacement and suffering of millions. ---JR
 
Ron continues:
Should this government fall, what would be the consequences to them and to us? If the void is _*not filled*_ by those who hate our customs and norms (including those freedoms we hold dear), who have no problems with fostering and supporting within their own borders those who would again make attacks on our shores, who won't enforce a way of life most of us would find totally repugnant, then let us bring these Canadian boys and girls home today.

If the void is to be filled by those who do very much want to do us harm, then please explain your thoughts on what should be our exit strategy and what we might expect to be the consequences of our retreat.
 
My reply:
A few of the several million in Afghanistan are now in a more safe situation. They need protection and continued assistance. Already the Karzai government is expressing a lot of criticism of American violence and destruction. The government and people of Afghanistan would welcome serious negotiation with the Taliban and a massive United Nations peace keeping and re-construction assistance. And if Canada and the USA contributed funds equal to the cost of their military efforts. Then the UN efforts would be very, very effective. The big obstacle to peaceful solutions is the US regime's insistence on getting USA corporations' oil infrastructure ownership and distribution rights. (The same is true in Georgia and Iraq and Venezuela and Bolivia.) Again, I always wonder why it's not sufficient to simply buy the oil at market price as each country make it available on the open market.

….Jacob Rempel, Vancouver

===================================
From: Ray Strachan
Subject: Just curious

Hi Joe

I was wondering about the opening part of the Digest.  the words "Those who
would very much like to do us harm".  Was curious from whom these words
originated  yourself or Ron Thornton.   Thanks

Ray Strachan

(Last sentence of Ron's post)

===================================
From: "Barry Douglas"
Subject: that these thing are happening is very disturbing

Garth under attack?

And I would also be disturbed if it were another candidates signs – of any party.
 
This is really sad.
 
The perpetrators, if caught, and there should certainly be made efforts to find them,
should be forced to publicly apologize, reveal their party affiliation if they are
a member of a party, required to reimburse, and serve some sort of penal time.
 
Unbelievable.
 
These type of antics strike at the very heart of the democratic process.
 
Hang in there Garth – and any other candidate in this great country who may encounter similar attacks.

===================================
From: "Rebecca Gingrich"
Subject: An (Election) Show about Nothing...However, if we all e-mail Paikin
 (question@elections08.ca) and ask him to kindly consider popping the free
 speech question during the debate, that might be worth the price of admission.

>Subject: An (Election) Show about Nothing...However, if we all e-mail
>Paikin (question@elections08.ca) and ask him to kindly consider popping the
 ...snip...
>Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo!
>Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com

===================================
From: "John Dowson"

Why on earth does Canada continue to send young men to Afghanistan to be killed and permanently injured to try and help people who don't like us? Why help people who don't like us? The best relief one can get from banging their head against a wall, is when they stop.
 
Place your fist in a pail of water and pull it out; the hole you leave in the pail of water is the same hole that the western troops will leave when they depart from Afghanistan. If people want to live in the 16th century let them. If they want to live in the 16th century with cel phones let them, If they want a few old men with long beards govern them let them.

John Dowson

===================================
From: "Robert Ede"
Subject: Booiman " They don't say WHO ..."

Suan Booiman wrote:
September 12, 2008
 
One CPC slogan is "Working for you"
They don't say who that WHO is.
 
A small article in the Vancouver Sun  ... edit ... Politics make strange bedfellows when in need. The sell out continues.
 
Suan

Re: "They don't say WHO ..."
 
Dear Suan,
 
Excellent question - one I've been trying to get voters to ponder.
 
In Canada, government is ONLY accountable to the Crown. This simple truth never occurs to Canadians.
 
Our whole lives have taken place in an era when "government ran/managed/controlled/etc" most everything - we cannot see beyond this personal experience.
 
Elections are about perpetuating the notion that "the people" are in charge, whereas at law and constitutionally 'the Crown' holds all Executive & Legislative authority (and ultimate title to all real property) and that governments are but STEWARDS of the Crown's power.
 
NB Canada is based on a totally different model of Sovereignty than is America OR the UK (another discussion)
 
The purpose of Parties is to get enough loyal-toady-locals elected to permit the power-brokers of the Party to assume the day-to-day operating responsibilities/powers granted to government BY the Crown, via the BNA/Constitution Acts 1760-today.
 
The "trick" is accomplished by fooling just enough nescient (no knowledge), benignly-neglectful, citizen/subjects to get 50%+1 seats in the Commons -the Lowest Order of Canadian conFederal governance.
 
So ... my mission has been to get the legal truth understood and then to get "the Crown" re-defined as "the citizens of Canada" collectively.  
 
We don't even need to change any laws or letterhead or  documents called "Constitution"  ... just do a "deemed disposition" of the Crown's powers (a theoretical transfer performed all the time by REVCAN) and start ACTING like proprietors not drone/subjects.
 
Knowledge IS power (but who's got the time/motivation to study)
 
One of many articles that nobody reads
 
Stephen(dot)Leacock
c/o Ed. E. Trebor
25 Dersingham Cres
Thornhill ON

===================================
From: "Suan H.Booiman"
Subject: WE WANT MORE

WE WANT MORE.....................
 
Charest calls for more powers over culture                (SEND THE MONEY=== Suan)
 http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080912.wcharest0912/BNStory/politics/home

 Duceppe demands Harper enshrine Quebec nation status in constitution

===================================
From: Benji Regina
To: Joe Hueglin

It is indeed hard to believe how grown men and women can stand in front of us and tell white lies! It is further mind-boggling how these individuals can stand there and chastise our younger generation for lying and the things they do to annoy us.

Cases in point, few want to remember the "promises" made by Stephen Harper about removing the GST when the price went above 0.85 cents per liter on fuel, and yet today he is promising to do even better. Heck if only this were true had he done what he told us. Gee I really can't wait to see this happen but with global warming hell is likely not to freeze over soon.

Few want to remember the "promises" several of Harper's now MP's made to Saskatchewan residents. Don't bring up the subject of Equalization as the likes of Tom Lukiwski will make you want to crawl into a hole.

The Liberals fell as a result of untruths, deceit that came known and thus their demise as government.

It seems to me in order to run for office, to be an MP you have to be able to concoct a "story" of sorts spin it and then run with it. I'm sure wanna-be MP's must assume we are gullible.

It is no wonder our younger generation look at the so called "fine-upstanding" individuals, our MP's and opt to not just laugh in our face but mock all of us by doing things that shock us. We have the audacity to chastise the younger generation when in fact we should be taking the people we elect and tossing their butt on the street! How can we address the rising crime problem when MP's mock us with the things they do?

When will white lies earn the teller "you are finished… you can embarrass me once but not twice"?

When we the voter take control then and only then will things improve in Parliament.

Benji
Regina

===================================




EDITORIAL PAGES

ST.JOHN'S TELEGRAM -
How bad does it have to get?

ALIFAX CHRONICLE HERALD -
Davis injects maturity, class into campaign

MONTREAL GAZETTE -
Climate-change policies are both flawed

Glad you asked, M. Parizeau

OTTAWA CITIZEN -
Neither friend nor foe

The unprincipled cynic and the honest fool 

Justice denied 

Guarding the Green gates 

What he once fought 

The law is on trial along with Khawaja  

KINGSTON WHIG STANDARD-
A grave new world

BELLEVILLE INTELLIGENCER -
Harper could be winner in debate fiasco

TORONTO STAR -
What would PM do with majority?

GLOBE & MAIL -
From dysfunction to competitiveness
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080912.weInvestment13/BNStory/politics/home

Harper's steadfastness lost
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080912.weafghan13/BNStory/politics/home

WINDSOR STAR -
The evolution of invention

Jail hurts more than criminals

SUDBURY STAR -
Confused about cholesterol?

Greens no longer have any excuses

SASKATOON STARPHOENIX -
Returning dignity to political debate crucial to Canada

Sask. issues debated outside borders

REGINA LEADER-POST -
Stephen and Stephane: Scarily similar

Family ties irrelevant factor in elections

DMONTON JOURNAL -
No need to panic over food issues

LETHBRIDGE HERALD -
'No diploma, no job' scheme makes no sense

VANCOUVER SUN -
Bleakness abounds in the economic world, but this too shall pass

The central bankers simply didn't do their jobs

Government alone can't keep our food safe

Dion has to pick on the bully to win
 
 VICTORIA TIMES-COLONIST -
Dion's fuzzy Green Shift is a tough sell

How television brought ruin to election campaigns

Afghan deadline a welcome pledge


ISSUES

AFGHANISTAN -
Dissension in Pakistan's ranks

Where the good die all too often
Chicago Tribune (09/13/2008)
[]
Bomb kills Logar governor, 3 others
The Associated Press (09/13/2008)
[]
Call for delay in next years presidential election
Pajhwok (09/13/2008)
[]
An Afghan 'October surprise'?
Los Angeles Times (09/13/2008)


PARTY POLITICS all 1,125 news articles »
I didn't get into politics to be loved'
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/canada/election-2008/story.html?id=787999

 Highlights from John Ivison's exclusive interview with Stephen Harper

Harper says opposition bucks conservative trend
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/080913/n_canada_reuters/canada_politics_col


POLITICAL OPINION -
The Conservatives are betting on the heart of Quebec
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cyberpresse.ca%2Farticle%2F20080913%2FCPELECFED03%2F80912269%2F7068%2FCPELECFED&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=fr&tl=en

A question no one wants to answer
When the recession finally does hit, what will you cut?

Lots of nasty comments being slung around

Puffin' Tories + huffin' Grits = Round 1 to Greens

Harper is reaping what he has sown

Atlantic mutiny against Harper is ultimately about integrity

Numbers don't add up for Dion

Dion the leader, stand up


OPINION AND INFORMATION


What would I do without Grits to kick around?

Nothing you can do about it
http://telegraphjournal.canadaeast.com/opinion/article/414017

Tories' big plan is just old money
http://www.thestar.com/FederalElection/article/498671


INFOS 
Les conservateurs semblent avoir le vent dans les voiles malgré une semaine ardue
http://info.branchez-vous.com/Nationales/080912/N0912158AU.html

Des hausses du prix de l'essence mènent à des insinuations d'escroquerie
http://info.branchez-vous.com/Nationales/080912/N0912108AU.html

Jean Charest veut l'autonomie dans la gestion des investissements culturels
http://info.branchez-vous.com/Nationales/080912/N0912160AU.html

Dany Williams ne parle que pour lui-même, selon Harper
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/article/20080913/CPELECFED02/80913031/7068/CPELECFED

Les conservateurs misent sur le cœur du Québec
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/article/20080913/CPELECFED03/80912269/7068/CPELECFED


 Harper spent years pondering, not pandering to Quebec. MORE...

Despite goofs and gaffes, Harper wins the week.. MORE...

Nervous Liberals gaze into the abyss. MORE...

Danny boy has gone too far. MORE...

Puffin' Tories + huffin' Grits = Round 1 to Greens MORE...

Lonely week to be a Liberal MORE...

The unprincipled cynic and the honest fool.. MORE...

Party still a bit green. MORE...

Lots of Harper talk, not much walk. MORE...

Leaders' exchange over environment deserves more attention... MORE...

True bravery is admitting the Afghan war is unwinnable. MORE...

Climate-change policies are both flawed MORE..

Harper courts small business owners

 Harper heads to N.L., downplays rift with Williams

 What the Tories know about you
Conservatives are targeting Canadians like never before with detailed databases and profiles of fictional voters to convert

Groupaction president was granted immunity deal

On Gas, Gaffes And 'Mr. Mean'

 Liberal MP alleges oil industry players colluding Harper wants P.E.I. to go blue this time

 Tories gain nationally, falter in key battlegrounds Dion ranks a distant second in Quebec
Liberal leader haunted by Clarity Act

Liberals still weak in swing ridings, poll finds

 Harper and Layton campaign on the offensive

 PM dodging own carbon report: May No secret alliance with Liberals, May says Pratt gives Baird's pre-campaign literature bad review Last-minute mailings by Tory MPs draw election scrutiny

 Liberals unveil $575M green plan

NDP accord promise to N.L.: $10 billion

 Harper seeks to delay Cadman lawsuit during election campaign

 Let us decide its own cultural priorities, Charest says

 Bloc raises stakes with constitution demand

 Younger voters ripe for online influence

 Soldier killed in Mali

 Russia flexes muscles over Arctic

 Listeria warning issued for frozen entrees

 Blueprint for nuclear bomb on internet, warns UN

 We Will Not Defy Beliefs, Doctors Say


==================================


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